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My Experiences With 10 Neurologists


ajcee

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The foregoing is a lengthy description of many experiences with neurologists, good and bad in my 13 years of post-stroke survival, Unfortunately, it doesn't include recovery. But it does stress the importance of a second opinion, especially in situations of a surgical nature. It also reveals the limitations of neurology, and although advances have been made in brain study, there is still much which is a mystery. Perhaps in the not too distant future, stem therapy advances may bring to life areas of the brain with awakened neurons and tissue. Lastly, neurologists are no different than other people with all their shortcomings and accomplishments, they do on occasion err!

 

 

Neurologist 1:

My first encounter with a neurologist occurred when I was hospitalized with my stroke 13 years ago.. He was a cheery man in his fifties who headed a group of neurologists in private practice. He informed me I had a brain stem stroke, but not to worry as the Willis Circle provides sufficient blood flow from other arterial sources. Four days later, he informed me that physical therapy was to start the following day, but was canceled due to it being the start of a holiday weekend, so he will release me as I could do exercises at home. At the time I couldn't even situp in bed, let alone stand. But I foolishly agreed, thinking his comment meant that a quick recovery was imminent. Fortunately, my son took it upon himself and phoned the doctor, stating that I was in no condition to be sent home and my wife's health condition disallows her from being a care giver. The doctor had second thoughts and apologized to me that he was errant in his decision and I was fortunate to have such a wise and thoughtful son. I was transferred to another hospital to start physical training.

 

Neurologist 2:

One of two neurologists visited me daily, asking me to touch my nose and their raised finger followed with a quick listen to my heart and disappeared with no comment, having earned $60.00 for 2 minutes time, followed by an internist who also listened to my heart( though a bit more thoroughly) with a quick but silent exit. After two weeks, I was transferred to a nursing home of my own choice with a head trauma wing,

 

Neurologist 3:

The wing accommodated 21 patients of various ages,suffering from a variety of head injuries, housed in single rooms. I had a good rapport with the neurologist and continued to see him after my release 2 months later. After several visits, and negative reactions to prescribed medications, he told me there was nothing more he could do to improve my condition.

 

Neurologists 4&5:

The first doctor stated my brain stem stroke was congenital as shown by the MRI showing the right vertebral artery being much narrower than the norm. His associate, seen for a second opinion, disagreed with the finding. Medicines were ruled out since they worsened my vertigo, and neither could make recommendations for improvement.

 

Neurologist 6:

Chief physician with a large neurological center, stated in a tactless manner, upon the completion of my examination, that nothing can be done ( this despite that he also headed the vestibular training unit) to improve my condition, which will continue to deteriorate.

 

Neurologist 7:

One of the most prominent neurologists in the County, prescribed a host of tests in the above facility in which he is partner. He suggested that the right ear vestibular nerve be “killed” with a series of gentamycin injections as the nerve is sending garbled messages to the brain causing vertigo and ataxia. He stated the only risk is hearing loss in that ear, but vestibular training will compensate with the left part of my brain compensating. I foolishly did not seek a second opinion and had the procedure done by a neuro-otologist he recommended. Immediately with the first injection my balance worsened and I had to revert to using a walker in place of my cane, and was left unable to drive and surrendered my license. I visited another neuro-otologist to determine if I should proceed with the series of injections, and he angrily stated that the procedure should never have been done as you can't correct a brain injury by treating a peripheral area. He further stated that its too bad that I didn't seek a second opinion before the procedure and that it is important not to continue further injections while I still have some balance on my right side.

 

Neurologist 8:

Although he was furnished with radiologists' reports and MRI discs as well as my statement that I had a brain stem stroke caused by an occlusion of the right vestibular artery, he recommended a current MRI and MRA. Upon receiving the results, he phoned my home and spoke to my wife in my absence.

He stated that it is important that I see a brain surgeon at once since there is a clogged blood vessel in my brain. My wife stated that I will call him back within the hour and he replied that he won't be available for the next two days. On my return, my wife conveyed his message, which aroused my anger. He had no right to to give such alarming news to my wife. I questioned his urgency and suspected he was relaying old news, but then again, perhaps there was another blockage. I called the radiologist and told him of my concern in the doctor's absence. He was very cooperative and reassured that there has been no change from earlier MRIs and doesn't see any indication that warrants the attention of a neurosurgeon.

 

I didn't chastise the doctor on my next visit as I didn't want to jeopardize a building relationship as I was running out of prospective neurologists in my quest for help. After another two visits to his office, he recommended a neurosurgeon whom he felt should review my MRA. I silently questioned the need as the report I read showed good blood flow in the brain. But I humored him, thinking there may be something I am overlooking. The surgeon briefly reviewed the MRA and stated that there is good blood flow and couldn't understand why I was urged to see him. Needless to say, I stopped seeing him after he admitted that he is baffled by my case and recommended that I see an internationally praised neurologist at Columbia University Presbyterian Hospital who limits his practice to difficult cases recommended by only a few neurologists.

 

Neurologist 9:

 

After googling the doctor's background, I set an appointment and was greeted by the physician who appeared to be in his middle to late seventies. He was cordial and old school polite and very thorough in his examination, asking me to sit beside him as he explained the study of my MRIs. At the conclusion he stated that he was very sorry, but there was nothing he can do to help me, adding that I unfortunately fall into a small group that fails to experience recovery. He further stated that vestibular training would be of no avail for my condition. I thanked him and said I guess there is no sense in visits to a neurologist. He stated to the contrary, it is important that I routinely continue to do so.

 

Neurologist 10:

While disappointed with my last neurological appointment, it brought to closure my quixotic adventure of fighting windmills. My intent was to find a neurologist I can be trustful and at ease with. Through my google search I found a young neurologist who appears to be very dedicated to his field with the ability to be empathic and a good listener. While he is updated in modern medicine, he takes pride in having been trained by older physicians with patient centered ethics and seems especially interested in my case as his dad is also a brain stem stroke victim. He states I am his most difficult case, but while he offers no optimistic expectations, he doesn't shrug in despair. “I think I can now accept the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, and the courage, the things I can”

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You have a good head on hour shoulders even though the old brain may not be perfect. You stuck it out with repeated visits, did not give up, did not expect your docs to be perfect, and you were kind in thought and deed. I admire your fortitude. Wish things were going more smoothly for you. We obviously have a lot more to learn when it comes to the brain. A lot of research is being done. It may not help us but it will help those in the future. Trust your instinctsand try to find joy in all the little things. Thank you for sharing. Hugs.

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We all do what we have to do to guarantee that we have the best treatment possible, I suppose that is quixotic in a way but then we do it to hold onto hope.  I can feel your frustration with all of this.  In 2005 I confronted Ray's neurologist and admit to shouting at him.  He said in 85% of cases he could make a diagnosis and see a way forward. As he was the best in his field regionally I did not look for another neurologist to go to. Unfortunately Ray was not in that 85%.  So we maintained his condition(s) as best we could and he had another 9 years of not so good life.

 

Sue.

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As I read through your entire fascinating posting I found myself thinking of what a jungle it is for almost anyone seeking good medical care. Contrary to what many believe, medicine is not an exact science. It is, in fact, more art than science. Treatments, diagnoses, prognoses, medications and almost any other thing into which physicians delve vary from doctor to doctor, sometime a great deal.

It is therefore imperatve that patients see themselves for what they are, which is to say customers. As a customer we are less likely to deify our doctor, less timid about questioning him or her, more willing to be assertive. I always run a background check on any doc I plan to visit. I look for how much experience he (or she) has, what board certifications he holds, where he went to med school and most anything else I can dig up. When I finally meet the physician I make it a point to mention something I learned  ("So you went to Duke, huh?") just to let the doc know that I'm the type of person who is picky enough about my doctors to check them out a bit. I also ask a lot of questions and I ask about the doctor's reasoning when he renders a diagnosis or proposes a course of treatment. As a retired journalist I am pretty good at knowing enough about most things to ask decent questions. Once a physician realizes that he is not dealing with a patient who laps up everything he's told without seriously questioning it, the doctor-patient relationship tends to be in better balance, meaning it is mutually respectful.

If I ever encounter a doc who is offended by the idea of my seeking a second opinion or consultation, I find another doctor. I have a strong preference for seeking such consultations at major university medical centers. If  I or someone in my family has a complicated case, I don't hesitate to make an appointment with that kind of institution, though even then I check out the doctor I'm to see. We are fortunate to live within a short drive of Duke University Medical Center. We've dealt with that fine and highly advanced institution on numerous occasions and we've always found it worthwhile.

Both of my sons are attorneys and I don't hesitate to let my doctors and nurses know that when anyone in our family is hospitalized or receiving complicated treatment. I usually mention that in a suble way so as not to appear threatening. The idea is to keep everyone just a little more alert and focused. If a nurse or doc is going to be sloppy, it's best that they do so with someone else, or so I reason. It's sad to think a professional caregiver needs to fear a lawsuit  in order to do his or her best but I think that is the case with a fair number of doctors, nurses and hospital administrators.

I guess what I'm saying is that we all have to look out for ourselves and our loved ones. Your saga drives that point home. I greatly admire your tenacity (and your son's) in seeking treatment and evaluating all of your doctors. You are a rare breed. Congratulations. And good luck.

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Ajcee, I too admire your courage and drive to get the best help you can for yourself.  I too have gotten a second opinion when Larry first stroked,  and I believe Larry is still here today because I did.  The problem with getting to these "best doctors" is they are booked up for months.  Also, as you have found, they want to see all the medical records before they will even consider seeing the patient.  In this area, we do not have as many nueros as you seem to have.  I don't think I could handle taking Larry to as many as you have with so many different opinons.  You are truly amazing.  Best of luck in your continued efforts.

 

Julie

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Ron,

Thanks for your reply, I'm in agreement with much of what you post and appreciate your use of the word, "deifying," which was bouncing around in my mind as I was posting, but failed to materialize with failing memory problems. I think the need to deify, is a transference problem we project onto many authoritative figures that may govern or influence our lives, stemming from religious beliefs and influence.

 

I am more impressed with "self-deification," a trait possessed to some degree in many physicians and exemplified to an almost laughable degree by neurologist No.7 in my list. During my first and only visit with this individual, who was held in the highest regard by local physicians for his brilliance and reputation, and highly recommended to me to be the most capable to resolve my problems, I experienced the following:

 

He failed to greet me or offer an apology for being an hour late for the appointed time. He quickly and quietly pored over my medical history as though I wasn't in the room. He noted that I was using a single pointed cane and commented that I should use a Sure Foot Cane ( a cane with a foot shaped bottom with a spring to emulate walking action) and attend a session for its usage in the vestibular training unit. It appeared clumsy to me and I told him I felt fairly secure with the use of my cane. His reply was.”Good bye!” I thought this guy has a God complex and expects his patients to follow his commandments. I was tempted to tell him where to go, but I was desperate for help and trusted in the faith the recommending doctor placed in him. I determined to chalk off his behavior to eccentricity and go along with his recommendations,which were many tests to undergo through various departments in the neurological center in which he was a partner. He suggested the ear injections I mentioned in my list and trustingly followed. As we neared the end of the visit,he recorded in my presence while staring me in the eye, a ten minute summary of the visit without notes,as though to say,”see how clever I am?”

 

I visited the head physical therapist regarding the Sure Foot Cane and was told the majority of patients that purchased them for over a hundred dollars, shortly discontinued usage as they found them too unwieldy and she could not recommend their usage to most patients. The manufacturer shortly went into bankruptcy.

 

As a result of the damage from his recommendation, I underwent several weeks of physical therapy in a nearby facility, with little improvement. When I explained my experience to the director of the facility, he stated several of his clients had a similar experience with the neurologist, all of whom had undergone a slue of unnecessary testing inside the neurologist's center. Some claimed to have been asked to leave for questioning his suggestions and some claimed to have actually been cursed at. Yet, many doctors I have spoken to continue holding this man in high regard. It appears this man thinks of his office as a kingdom that he is lord of, taking advantage of the vulnerability of his patients while he presents a facade of high competency and sociability to his peers.

 

I certainly didn't deify him, but trusted his competency based on how he was viewed by his fellow physicians. However, I was naïve and foolish to allow myself to be blindly led without a second opinion.

 

Indeed, seeking medical attention in a highly rated hospital is the route to go and I could have saved myself a lot of headache if I had done so, but travel is difficult for me, and while there is a large university hospital nearby, I found their neurologists lacking.

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First of all thank you for posting this and warning us that there are snake oil peddlers in white lab coats that the body snatchers put in place of the real docs because please tell me that these people did not make it through med school. A cardiologist told me that doc have a lousy manner because they have their heads in books for all those years and well I personally figured they had their heads somewhere else which I am too much of a lady to say outloud.  As a woman I have dealt with some form of doc or med person for my whole life for myself or my kids, and not all pediatric folks are warm and fuzzy, and so now with the stroke stuff it is just more of the same and just because a doc has some smanchy degree doesn't make him or her intelligent, a good problem solver, or remotely interested in patients other than a boat payment. There are some dedicated ethical and inspiring docs out there and I wish I had better luck at finding them but the sad truth is that it isn't about self-blame here at all because we are first of all reliant on the insurance, the recommendations, the time frame, and other things that we trust in and assume in and all of that. I think we should question everything and everyone all of the time but there are times when we do and we don't have time to do a complete survey because we need help and we need it now. It is the job of the good ol' boys club of docs to regulate and eliminate the ones doing harm and it sounds wonderful to have some sons to threaten er I mean suggest they do what they should and maybe we can borrow them just to say now I know a woman and her sons are lawyers   no harm in that eh anyway we are sick for heavens sake and have to watch out for the sharks at all times even now or maybe especially now.  This makes me so angry reading about the variety of nutballs making so much money for Swiss vacations that are incompetent and uncaring. On the other hand it also sounds like some SNL skit of idiots doesn't it? Not to make light of the situation here my apologies just my quirky dark sense of humor. Every one of these docs has some SNL character in mind here so I couldn't  help myself. That and the muppets my mind puts people in muppet categories when they are extremely idiotic.  Cant you just see No 7 as monster with some fuzzy hair shaking it abuoot thinking he is all that and all he is spouting off is some blahs.  It is really disheartening that they get away with low standards. As you might imagine I am a complainer and complimenter with those satisfaction surveys and hope someone reads them.  I have seen some badones come and go so sometimes they work. Many people don't like to complain but I figure it may help the next guy. oh that sounds nice I am also a complainer to be honest and I am going to have my word in fact at this post stroke stage I am nearly filterless.  I just am angry that it isn't easy to be cared for correctly even when you do all you can to ensure it and hope for it.

There are licensing boards to contact but when an insurance co or PCP sends you off who thinks to check and wow I now look on YELP because I went to a rude one and then looked him up and he was king of rude on there. But otherwise we are often caught off guard because we are vulnerable  but this is a good reminder to be empowered and not tolerate bad professional behavior. Having said that do you know how hard and what a hassle it is to change doctors LOL! Don't get me started on my own list of docs here and I am not just talking about the ones I have met during the stroke days, we can get a good list going here lol and I am so sorry that it seems that at the higher level of docs the story is the same.

 

When I was in the hospital I eagerly looked forward to the visit with the neurologist and when he came all he said was he ordered some headache medicine for me. I said I don't have a headache and I had other questions and he kept repeating he ordered headache medicine for me. This is a true event and I say that because it is unbelievable and sounds like it is made up.  Or maybe he didn't speak English.

 

I had to wait over four months to see my current neurologist (#2) and he took over an hour to sit and talk with me, which was also an evaluation, and he didn't even have my medical records so it was just a history and all that. I told him my PCP wanted vestibular and cognitive testing which he said what I felt he said what are you going to do with the findings? I agreed and said that I already know I cant balance, walk or drive and so I just want to get on the therapy and not waste more time on tests and as for cog well life is the best test there is because the subtle stuff isn't going to show up on a simple test and will show up in the complexities of life and most folks want a test though. I asked him if I seemed fine and worried that maybe I was crazy and didn't know it type of thing and he said in the hour I did not have any unusual cognitive slips and said his test was who is the current president and what is the date and when I didn't know the date I said that was not unusual since I never know what day it is even before the stroke LOL because they all ran together. Now they do in a different way.

 

So all my blabbering is that I read your post and think yep more unnecessary silliness going on in the middle of someone's real life and I wish you could sue over your damaged ear thing and I find it unforgivable that the stupid doc alarmed your wife and then had the nerve to say that he wasn't going to be available later. Ok so did that sound like some secret agent message that was going to self destruct in five seconds after hearing it or could the doc have managed to somehow take your call at a later time and by the way did he even follow up with making sure you did go for some emergency evaluation for the dangerous situation he claimed to have caught just in time or was he going to the moon. Ok so I don't get on with absolute stupidity well. And right now I am filterless. I am not writing my collection of four letter vocabulary but I am thinking them.

 

Anyway I gather from all of this new world of stroke stuff that no one can predict for sure and that since there is just a hope and a no hope condition then we probably are all better off choosing the hope condition and maybe it may help if nothing else does. Maybe the small gains could mean more than they do to me and perhaps it is all about perspective. I am not a great fan of the serenity prayer because it has never given me any serenity with having to accept things I don't want to and to go do things I don't want to and I don't see how that is going to bring serenity to me but I am told that if I master this peace to stop fighting life I will be more comfortable.  at this I am laughing because I am held hostage with no control in this and there is so little the medical community can do for me and I have to trust God that this is how he has the plan going and so can u imagine my conversations with him lately. yeah I can't hear people talk about the stages of grief either since i can recite them in my sleep and knowing doesn't change feeling. This is hard stuff.

 

But what I find here and other places where stroke folk gather is a sharing of stories that add up to so much help and understanding that I think no therapist can offer in one place so thank all of you for stories and feelings shared. I don't even know what the point of my reply was going to be but here it is.

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