Vitamin and supplement withdrawal


Recommended Posts

On July 4th 2009 my wife had a hemoragic right frontal stroke. While in the hospital the neurologist asked me if my wife was on any medication, the only thing I was aware of was the vitamin and supplements she took on a daily basis. he asked me to bring them into the hospital so he could list them and look at them. I loaded the lot into a grocery bag ( it was about half full) and when I brought them to him he was shocked at the amount she was taking, I would say she was taking 10 to 12 different pills a day. He later told me that the supplements and vitamins she was taking may have contributed to her stroke. My question is can a person go through withdrawal for supplements and vitamins? Now that she is home her temperament is totally out of control she goes through stages of being quiet to shouting at me to crying. She blames me for everything that doesn't go right. This has me so upset that I am just about to call this marriage quits :ranting: I am not the bad guy in this yet I feel I can't do anything right

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rick, Welcome to the site. I am not sure about the vitamin question. Your wifes behavior is probably related to the damage from the stroke.

 

In our Classic Posting Forum is a" Letter From Your Brain." The brain cells.. and pathways have been damaged, so some of the neurons .. and little guys that carry emotional signals are interrupted.. like a bridge over a river.. the bridge has crumbled. With time, and therapy, patience.. she will/ can re-learn much.

 

In our Care Giver Forum is a Care Givers Bill of rights and Hand book... there is also one for the survivor.

 

In your Search Bar, you may want to type in Right Brain Stroke, there is quite a bit of information on some of the deficits , icluding emotional liability.

 

You may want to talk with her Dr about her outbursts, and anger.. He may set her up for some behavorial therapy, or medications that would help.

 

I am 6 + yrs post stroke. I know the first year, i had my feelings hurt and would cry easily ( I have never been much of a cryer.. before) If you can try to think of this as damage.. and repair work is slow... The lady you love is there, she is frightened also.. and she feels different.. and things are not connecting properly in her brain right now. Be open and honest with the Dr. Try to sit down and talk to her about her reactions, and how it is affecting you also.

 

Come back often, We have many caregivers here who understand....

 

Welcome to the site, Bonnie

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi rick welcome to the site, you have come to survivors and caregivers all affected by stroke in one way or another. we do understand and will try to help you get through the aftermath of a stroke and the effects it has on us. everyone is different in their recovery but some things are the same depending on the type of stroke we have. bonnie was right on in her reply to you, i urge you to read what she suggested. we can share our experiences and knowledge with you. i know you feel like your world has crumbled but it will get better with time and help for your wife. she is still in there just kinda jumbled around in her brain. i suggest you learn all you can about stroke, particularly the type your wife had. knowledge is power in how to help her and what to expect. it does take the brain at least 6months for the swelling to do down also. she is probably angry, confused and unhappy and will take it out on you, not meaning to. hang in there, there are many ups and downs in the recovery journey. you are to be commended for staying with your wife through this, many spouses walk after a stroke. try to understand and have some patience with her. keep telling her how much you love her and encourage her to get better as much as you can. we do have a caregivers chat every tuesday nite at 8pm est in the caregiver room if you would like to stop in.

i hope the dr can determine what caused your wifes stroke. my best to you both.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would definitely talk to your doctor. He may (or may not) have enough knowledge of vitamins and supplements to help you. It would be interesting to get his take on what vitamins she should be taking. Most doctors do recommend a regular multi-vitamin.

 

Anyone who may be reading this. Be sure to talk to your doctor (or pharmacist) about vitamins and supplements you are taking. Their insight into what you should and should not be taking can be very valuable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rick.....

 

Strokes affect people in a lot of different ways...

 

I'm guessing you are not dealing with a withdrawal issue, because withdrawals, by their nature, are things that happen when the body/mind readjusts to some thing being withdrawn....Depending on what kind of supplement would be 3-4 weeks max, than it's been purged from the system...

 

I've also honestly never heard of a supplement withdrawal, but there are supplements, and there are supplements...

 

What stroke does do for many survivors is force major changes in how they are going to run their lives, and that can be a major emotional issue...Collateral damage to those around them.....

 

She's early in her recovery.....

 

In my case, the first few months seemed like Hell, because it seemed that every time I turned around, I was faced with new restrictions on living....It seemed to never end, and was very depressing...This was after in hospital rehab that got me functional enough to exist in the outside World...

 

Eventually, that passed, and I started the road to come back to my life....

 

Give her some more time, consult with the med folks....

 

You'll get her back yet......

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rick,

 

When you get the answers please let us know cause I take a few of them myself?

Link to post
Share on other sites

O.k. here is what I understand from her doctor... some supplements (for instance feverfew, niacin, ect) actually act as blood thinners when taken in the amounts my wife was taking them. As I said she was taking a concoction of 10 to 12 pills a day I must also add that she is a vegan and consumes absolutely no animal protein, so when she was admitted to the hospital she was actually malnourished and was anemic . My wife reads a lot of articles on nutrition :bookread: some of which I think are more of what I call "buy our untested and unproven product it will make you healthy" you know the ones I am talking about that only give empirical proof and have the disclaimer "not approved by the FDA" :uhm: When she was in the hospital they actually put her on a tube feeding that went directly into her digestive system, this was because she could not swallow correctly and because she refused to try to eat any animal protein. I am sorry but if a doctor told me I needed to eat a dead skunk to get better I would, I am crazy like that :Starvin:

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI RICK, IT IS REALLY SAD YOUR WIFE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS DOING TO HERSELF WITH THE SUPPLEMENTS, I WOULD THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD CHECK WITH THEIR DOCTORS BEFORE MEDICATING THEMSELVES, BUT WHATS DONE IS DONE. NOW YOU BOTH NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON GETTING HER BETTER. HOPEFULLY SHE WILL GET BACK TO HEALTH WITHOUT ALL THE STUFF SHE WAS TAKING AND EATING BETTER, PERHAPS HER DOCTOR CAN GET BACK ON TRACK. YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. SHE MIGHT NEED A NEURO PSYCH EVALUATION. YO HELP HERSELF DEAL WITH ALL THATS HAPPENED. WE ALL HAVE SAID IM SURE AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER, "WHAT IF I'D DONE THAT," I WOULDN'T BE IN THIS SITUATION. DONT LET HER PUT THE GUILT TRIP ON HERSELF. ITS GOOD TO SEE, YOU STILL HAVE A GOOD SENSE OF HUMOR ABOUT YOU WITH YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE DEAD SKUNK, LOL KEEP US POSTED ON HOW YOU BOTH ARE DOING. LETS GET HER WELL SO THINGS WILL SETTLE DOWN FOR YOU BOTH.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rick....

 

First let me qualify by saying that I am a member of PETA......People Eating Tasty Animals.....

 

But if the Doc told me I hadda go vegan to get better, than I would....<G>....

 

When I answered above, I mentioned "but there are supplements, and there are supplements...", because some can get pretty extreme...

 

What you might have going on is her body trying to return to normal, not really a withdrawal...

 

And yeah, what she was taking might have led to her bleed....

 

I have several on-line friends who are vegan, and it can be practiced without depriving your body of certain essentials, but it requires a super commitment and a lotta knowledge to get those necessities that we need and normally get only from animal protein...

 

On top of all that, she's still going through the most difficult time for many Stroke Survivors....A lot of folks will tell you the first year is the worst, and I am not going to argue that at all....She and you are going through the first *half* of the first year....

 

In my case, that was *particularly* worse....I suspect it is for her, too...

 

You may even have to become allied with the Docs, seeming to be "against" her....Possibly the worst is yet to come....

 

It does get better, it always does....

 

I have a general axiom when it comes to Stroke Survivorship and recovery.....It *always* seems to take too long....<G>...!

 

Hang in there, my friend...Keep in touch....

 

Care.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to our world. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. It seems to me that your wife could use some counseling on her diet. A dietitian could help her get back on track. Her anger can be attributed to the stroke and it could also be her body is calling for help.

 

I understand how you can be upset, because you have lost a lot, too. I hope you don't jump ship just yet. Time has a way of healing.

 

Vi

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rick,

 

Sorry to hear what you both are going thru. I'm echoing everyone else and just wanted to say that although I'm not a vegan I am a vegetarian. I eat no red meat but get protein from fowl, peanut butter and I also eat fish, nuts and grains along with soy products. I also had a hemorrhagic stroke but my doctor indicated that it was my diet that worked in my favor. My stroke was due to my own abuse of aspirin for headaches I was having daily. Anyway, I'm 6 years post stroke in December and I ask my doctor about any supplement I want to add to my regimen. Try your best to hang in there because like most say the first year can be a doozy. I would talk with her doctor though and ask for advice and as complete of an explanation you can get about the after effects of the stroke in the area of the brain she had it. Maybe you can find a local support group for both of you. Most of all, we're here to help as much as possible. God bless.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry you both had to go through this. I'm sure she thought she was Being healthy .. and doing the best for herself. Like others have said, there are other sources of protein, if she wants to remain a vegan.. I am sure a nutriotinest/dietician can help with diet and protein sources.

 

Many vitamins can be helpful, but many if taken in the wrong doses can be harmful or even toxic, or hard on certain organs. I am not much of a vegetable eater. but I do try to get vitamins and nurients.. some from a vitamin and supplements my Dr has recommended and some by cooking with vegetables.

 

Getting her diet and malnutrion under control and getting her stronger. will hopefully help with getting stronger and workin toward recoveery.

 

The firs year after stroke.. is the hardest, mentally, physically... I know there are some "Vegan " magazines, that I am sure have recipes and how to get protein, from other than animal protein.

 

Best Wishes to you both.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Rick.

 

I really don't know what to add here but you have my understanding and support for what your going though. I wish I could add something here but I can't. I don't know any thing about vitiams. But you do have my support in dealing with this problem.

 

Bruce Schwentker

Link to post
Share on other sites

All your advice is being read and passed on to my wife who has the pat answer "they don't know what they are talking about, I know what my body needs and doesn't need!" :umnik: This morning she ate 2 pieces of toast and drank an Ensure, that's it. She is weight obsessed, her answer is always "I am to fat" :Scratch-Head: When I say something I get told to "shut up" or "thank you for your criticism" Her bowl movements are loose and she pees 3 to 5 times a night not to mention the 4 times a day ( so I get no sleep at all :Neeeedsleeep: and I still have to work a full time job). When her children (from her first marriage) come over she is a completely different person. There is no reason to the things she does, she can not plan the simplest thing the smallest word sets off a tirade. There doesn't seem to be any effort to do her exercises everything must be done for her. If it weren't for the fact that she has me pulling her arm and leg to keep them loose she would sit and do nothing :notworking:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Rick,

 

Before you take your wife to the closest hospital and drop her off as an abandoned waif, as a caregiver I would suggest a couple of things. (Probably that first part of this post wouldn't be the best thing for you to read to her!!!!)

 

My husband decided before his stroke in 10/2004 he could reverse his heart disease by using herbs, vitamins and supplements. I can't tell you how much vitamin C he was taking after reading a book about reversing severe atherosclerosis by taking it. He did not, however, take any suggestions as far as controlling his blood pressure and diabetes because he felt the doctors were quacks who were only looking for money. Your wife is not alone and you aren't either.

 

Emotional extremes are REALLY common post-stroke. This first year is going to be a bugger for her since there will be ups and downs - and sometimes from our perspective many more downs than ups. I know survivors feel the same way. It also isn't at all unusual that she is taking her anger out on you and not her children. Not because she is angry at you, but because she feels sure of your love and concern and you are the closest person to her. This may not be very comforting to you, but it may answer some of your questions about why she is doing what she is.

 

For your well-being, please, please, please get some in-home help. Maybe some of those kids that come to visit could stay for a few hours and take over so you can get a good nap or go for a ride to clear your mind. Have you been involved in any clubs or what about her friends? ASK because many times people ask what they can do then we lament because they don't pitch in - all because we don't ask for what we need. How about friends, does (or did) your wife have a best friend? And Rick, you NEED some help. I'd also suggest contacting your local Agency on Aging Adults. They have a multitude of programs, maybe the most helpful for you is a Support Group for Caregivers. I've found it so helpful to see I'm not alone in this role.

 

Now, how to deal with her lashing out at you. Sometime when she isn't lashing out I think you should sit down with her. Explain to her how you love her, respect her and want to be there for her. Go on to explain that you are her husband, but you cannot continue to be the focus of her anger. Explain that you want to help her and she needs to help you. The stroke has happened and it's not going away. She can get better, but it will take lots of work on both your parts.

 

Lastly, the people here know more than anybody about stroke and its effects. Nobody here knows her body, but everybody here deals with it on a daily basis. (You can keep that tidbit to yourself too, since it might just make her mad!!!) All the information here is offered by people who have traveled her road, as well as yours. Maybe she just hasn't completed the anger phase, maybe it's a result of the stroke. Probably a good way to determine which it is would be to talk with her doctor yourself (does she have a Neurologist whose specialty is stroke?). A consultation with a neuro psychologist may very well be in order to determine what is going on and how she might get some relief.

 

Don't give up, time is our friend and haste is definitely our enemy.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ann Rogers

Link to post
Share on other sites

rick, your wife is in a mindset of not wanting to help herself. what caused her stroke is a mute point now. she refuses to believe anything told to her, she obviously is in the anger stage of her grief. shes angry at herself for allowing this to happen, and you for just being there and having to help her. maybe try letting her do these things by herself. i think if she doesn't improve she probably should see a neuro-psych for an evaluation. is she on any antidressants? they can help her cope with the changes affecting her life now. a survivor needs to want to help themselves get better in their recovery. she will be doomed to fail, if she doesn't try. the pathways in her brain need to repair themselves by repetition of simple things. the brain can repair itself with help from your wife and therapy. in our classic forums, there is a "letter from your brain", i suggest you and your wife read it. we have other great things in that forum as well. the caregiver and survivor bill of rights are other good ones to read along with the 5 stages of grief. she has an eating disorder too if she's always thinking she is to fat. keep encouraging her as best you can. whatever she eats will cause weight gain if she doesn't do some kind of activity during the day. i really think she needs professional help. talk with her doctor if you haven't already about your concerns. a stroke is a hard thing to come to terms with. i hope you can get her turned around to want to help herself to make her new life more pleasurable and yours. there is life after a stroke. i am not meaning to be harsh in what i say to you. nor am i a professional. just a stroke survivor having walked this path before. good luck to you both. please keep us updated as you can.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rick,

I really can't tell you whether or not it had to do with vitamins and supplements or exactly what she is feeling right now. The best I can do is tell you how I felt when it happened to me and hope it will give you some insight in to what may be going on with her right now. I was 41 years old had not a thing wrong with me, made sure I took good care of myself, and had a career that I enjoyed. I had plans. I intended to grow old gracefully and thought I was doing quite well at working toward that. In the blink of an eye that was ripped out from under me. This can be tough on those of us that are a little vain, and I'm up there with the worst of them. My husband, then fiance, knew things like my hair and nails were just as important a form of therapy to me as was PT and OT, so he'd take me for manicures and such. He would do my hair for me so

 

I could try to look and feel a little bit more like myself. Of course as hard as he tried he's no beautician and I guess thought I should wear my hair like his. Anyway it wasn't pretty.

The point is it makes you angry and very frustrated. I just wanted to be a girl again and feel feminine and pretty. Overnight I turned into what felt like a 60 year old frump. Don't forget you are the biggest reflection in her mind of that. Everytime you look at her she thinks you're thinking, OMG Don't look at me I'm so unattractive., and gets mad at you for it.

 

Don't give up or throw in the towel, she'll figure it out. My husband kept telling me I looked the same, I knew he was lying. I decided to reinvent myself instead of going through the frustration of trying to be the old me and cut my hair very very short. I hated it and was pretty cranky because it wasn't me so decided to grow it back. Like I said she'll figure it out. 4 1/2 years and at least a dozen hair appliances later,my husband walked in from work the other day,make up and hair done looking just like it used to. Stopped dead in his tracks and said Wow, you're back.

Best part is I don't dread taking a shower and putting the effort in to getting done because the finished product isn't such a grave disappointment and worth the work again. I don't think she's angry because she allowed it to happen, but rather because she was working hard to prevent it and it happened anyway so she feels ripped off.

 

Another spin may be...you mention children from her previous marriage. I know I also was a single mother who as a result developed a strong sense of independence and confidence. I didn't appreciate suddenly becoming dependent on someone(husband or not) and feeling I was incapable of taking care of myself if I had to. It makes you feel trapped and at someone's mercy, which is not good. If she got herself out of a previous bad marriage the stroke may be making her feel very vulnerable and resentful of her position of dependency right now.

 

Once again I know I focused on her anger as opposed to your question about vitamins and supplements, but just wanted to give you some insight in to where my head and emotions where in the beginning since you are greatly concerned with her anger as well.

 

Good luck and keep in touch.

 

Maria :friends:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rick,

 

I also do not have any answers for you on the vitamin and supplement question. Your wife is angry at the world right now for what has happened to her as well as in denial. I know I was a bi*** on wheels right after stroke entered my life. Many times we lash out at those closest to us.

 

My suggestion would be to not do as much for her, let her do for herself as best she can. Perhaps as she gains some independence her mood will change. I know my mood improved once I gained some independence and did things for myself.

 

She is so early into her recovery - it's said the first year is the roughest. Once she accepts what has happened to her she will hopefully have a change of heart and want to work on her recovery.

 

I do hope that you can get time for yourself.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know if my husband ever felt like this Rick what I know is without putting in words his actions made me feel like that I was never going to be this person he wanted back. I could not give him as that person was gone. Its been 2 1/2 years now and its rare so very rare that Bill and I have a difficult time We are more solid than ever. But our sons wives are so very disrpectful and make my life a living hell at every opportunity. I am never allowed to defend myself at all Of course I am treated like I am stupid and some how I want to be disabled I am left to wonder ....so when was it ever ok to be mean to anyone that has had a stroke? Its not! We are changed and we never asked for any of this. Which leaves our sons in the middle having prayed for my survival and I can tell their marriages have suffered because of my stroke. Life changes My suggestion is count to ten backwards when stress gets to much and if that is not enough do it again. She loves you I am sure of that I am She would not have chosen this in a million years It is hard I know it, every care giver here can relate. Just know that there is probably very little in her life that is even close to the same. It takes courage and strength and dedication But if you both can try it can be beyond words more loving more trustful more beautiful that ever before..... you will have a closeness you could not ever have had before . You will become a team that only those who have survived something devastating can even begin to understand, the depth of love and how you grew together to overcome adversity can make your marriage a priceless treasure . Hang in there... it can be so worth it. Karen

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

How do I now get my wife to do her at home therapy???? :Ask: When the OT or PT or ST assign her some easy stuff she can do even when she is sitting in her chair she doesn't do it and when they ask her if she is she out right lies to them and says she is.?????? I roll my eyes :yeahrite: and shake my head. When I try to remind her of her responsibilities I am told to stop lecturing her, stop nagging her or some other phrase of disrespect :dunno: I have tried to get the other members of her family involved in reminding her that if she doesn't put the effort into her recovery it will only be that much longer until she is independent enough to allow us to stop beating her up as she says

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi rick, it really saddens me that survivors won't try to help themselves after a stroke, when there is a good life waiting for them to discover. as said before tough love is needed here i think, if she doesn't do her exercises to build up strength, she is hurting herself and her marriage, she doesn't realize how lucky she is to have you encouraging her to try and motivate her. her muscles will atrophy without use of them. some survivors are like that i guess and its a shame too. she will probably end up in a nursing home if she doesn't do something now. has her doctor offered any suggestions to you. she is obviously still angry at herself, you, and the world for what has happened to her. can you get her to see a neuro-psychologist for an evaluation. perhaps they can get her on some mood elevators to help her or antidepressants. i am out of suggestions for you but she does need some help, she has just given up on everything it appears i hope things somehow improve for both of you. its really sad to watch someone you love, literally waste away in front of you. when they can do something to stop it. how did therapy get her to do anything? i wish you all the luck in the world. thankyou for updating us too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry this is to much for me...if I knew I was going to have to work 2 jobs at my age , I have to work more hours per week now to meet my financial obligations due to my wife's stroke (I am now working close to 60 or more hours a week) as well as having to be available for my wife's needs (therapy appointments, doctors appointments, getting up to go to the bathroom at night, showering, getting dressed etc.) Her children are unreliable and will not commit to helping out on a long term basis, I am lucky to know if they are going to be available to help on the weekend by friday night sorry but I am gonna die at this pace

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rick: I am so sorry to read the latest that you posted. I had an idea: You stated:

 

"when they ask her if she is she out right lies to them and says she is.?????? " re: her homework assignments, why couldn't you just share with them in front of your wife that she isn't doing them. Maybe that would bring a conversation up and you all could partake in it. Just a thought. The Therapists and you both want the same thing for your wife, healing and getting better.

Also, I was wondering if you were involved with a local Church or group, if so, maybe they could get involved and help you out. Have you checked with you State where you live? I know, in my case, I have finally been able to get some help through them.

 

My Hubby is my Caregiver and I tell you what, if it wasn't for him and his loving devotion, I would have not been able to come home. It would have been a Nursing Home.

 

Your wife sounds like she is very angry ..... she needs to move beyond that. There is life after stroke, We are all members of that "After stroke life" that are members here. For some of us, it isn't the life we had pre stroke, but , it is still a life. We have had to reinvent and/or readjust how we get things done.

 

You need time for you, you sound like you are getting Caregiver Burn Out. My heart goes out to you.

 

Is it possible to just explain to her children that you need their help, afterall, this IS their MOM?

 

Know I am praying for you. Just keep Hope alive in your heart. Please update when you get a chance. Until then, just know we are all here for you ..... At least, you can post and get it off of your chest. :friends:

 

Hugs, Jan

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

my guess is that the suppliments had nothing to do with the stroke, she is confused and angry that her body betrayed her especially since she took great care and was so involved in her health my rt side stroke v10/01 got me real angry ans cruel my wife gradually gave up the ,caretaker part, i began to take care of myself and got very involved. i withdrew from many of my friends. its hard to dine out with food dripping out of your mouth that you cannot feel also, the no alcohol edict was very tough id rather vstay home and watch t.v. before my stoke i was an avid bike rider and tennis player8-20 hours/ week. how could i have a stroke?? my #was up and *beep* happens currently i am on social security disability and enjoy myisv great company and 9 years retirement and am happy loving what is left, some of my friends treated me like i was contageous,i still wonder what the f happened here ??my grandkids (2), love me my dog daschound, is a great buddy and 9 years post stroke i am less angry and scared of a recurrance going to the beach my 1/2 hour walk. your wife will mentally recover let her take more responsability for her care understand that this is tough stuff for both of you stay healthy and enjoy every day, Stanley :yadayada:

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for letting so much time to pass and not keeping all of you out there updated. We are not really moving forward on the at home therapy :notworking: , I have tried to provide Sondra with all the gadgets (e stims :lightning: , door rope pulley :bungee: etc) and am still "beating her up", or "nagging her" or "lecturing her". She has fallen several times, while I applaud her for trying to do something on her own :Clap-Hands: I "lecture her" on the need to be safe and not complicate this trial with other injuries that she may not be aware of (broken bones, bruises, torn muscles) :Doh: let alone the embarrassment of urinating or defecating herself :oops: My mind won't shut off at night so I get no sleep :SLEEPING: :Zzzz: :Neeeedsleeep: :tired: I just sit up at the coffee table and stare at the clock. When her children come over to the house all they do is sit, raid the fridge, watch T.V. and disrespect me. I feel like getting in the car one night and driving anywhere and just dump her ass in their laps...but I won't.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.