Say "No" to abuse

[swilkinson]

I have noticed a number of posts dealing with a changed relationship after stroke where the survivor becomes abusive and verbally abuses the caregiver. I can't see why it is okay for a stroke survivor to be abusive? If they are abusive before stroke in a domestic situation it is a crime. We have a campaign here called "Australia says "NO" to abuse." which is about all forms of abuse, physical, verbal and emotional. All forms of abuse are a crime.

 

Why then is it okay that a caregiver is subject to abuse after someone has had a stroke? I know for one I wouldn't be staying around if someone was abusive, whatever the reason. There are societal restraints even after stroke to stop a person being verbally abusive and if that is not sufficient there are chemical restraints.

 

Are there mental health teams that deal with these issues in the US? I know I could get in touch with one here by phoning a telephone help line and talking to someone over the phone or arranging a face-to-face appointment. Most of these counselling sevices would be free. It is a government initiative here aimed at trying to keep violence from leading to crime or to jail time.

 

Verbal abuse sometimes leads to physical abuse. And that can lead to permanent damage not only to the one who is the focus of the assault but also in some cases family members who become embroiled in the fighting. Children who witness abuse for instance can become abusers themselves in the future.

 

Maybe I am seeing too much in some of the posts here but my advice in any case of abuse would be first get out, then get help. And if the abuse continues keep away from the perpetrator.

 

Sue.

 

[arogers]

Well said, Sue.

 

It seems like we caregivers think we can make everything better, in spite of reality. Psychological problems post-stroke appear to be as or more serious than any physical problems. We need to be careful not to confuse this situation by thinking we "don't love" the survivor anymore if we take steps to protect ourselves and our families from abuse. We can love in many forms including creating boundaries for ourselves and our families.

 

This is a great web-site for all of us. It seems as though this topic is becoming more open, maybe because members and guests feel comfortable talking about it here when they don't have a good support system. Or if they do have a good support system they are looking for a different answer than one they have been hearing. Whatever the case, it's good to be reminded that the survivor and caregiver have the right to feel secure, loved and respected. Each of us must take care of ourselves. As you said, verbal abuse may - and often does - lead to physical abuse.

 

Thanks for your reminder!

 

 

 

[Guest lwisman]

I agree that no one should be subjected to abuse. I personally had the experience of getting out of a physically abusive situation many years ago. It is never an easy situation.

 

Having said that, one really does have to decide what is abuse and what is acting out after a stroke. Strokes do cause survivors to lose the ability to control emotions. Also many stroke survivors are mad as h*** that they had a stroke. The lashing out may be as much at life as to a specific person that happens to get in the way. The survivor may find that they are unable to control emotional outbursts.

 

Hopefully the caregiver (or other person) can get some help. Is there a way to get the survivor psychological help? Can the caregiver find help for themselves - to help sort out the problem.

 

 

[arogers]

Having said that, one really does have to decide what is abuse and what is acting out after a stroke. Strokes do cause survivors to lose the ability to control emotions. Also many stroke survivors are mad as h*** that they had a stroke. The lashing out may be as much at life as to a specific person that happens to get in the way. The survivor may find that they are unable to control emotional outbursts.

 

Lin,

 

This is where the real problem lies I think. When is verbal abuse just that and not "acting out" as a result of stroke? And even if it is acting out as a result of the stroke, is the caregiver obligated to endure the acting out for an undefined time and live in a situation that is emotionally damaging not only to themselves, but the entire family? How many weeks, months or years of lashing out does it take to call it abuse?

 

The lashing out in the cases I've been seeing on the board don't seem to be at any person "that happens to get in the way" - they are directed (however inappropriately) at the one who would give their own life if it could make the survivor better, the caregiver.

 

I understand the survivor is mad as h*** about stroke. We caregivers aren't particularly happy about the situation either. It seems though that if we lash out we are most clearly considered the abuser.

 

For this reason I still feel speaking to the doctor about the issue and following up with a psychiatrist would be prudent on the part of the caregiver. While some survivors may find visits to a counsellor valuable, if a medication is appropriate a psychiatrist or medical doctor needs to prescribe it.

 

Please understand I'm asking these questions rhetorically so we can come to a better understanding of this aspect of the emotional wrechage of stroke. I'm not trying to take sides, nor am I suggesting the survivor has no right to be angry.

 

 

Regards,

[jwatrous]

Sue, its June, and I have noticed the same pattern, which is not tolerable -

Abuse, of any nature is criminal, and the only time I see people stay are for financial or physical reasons, but people, in our society, should be more loving, and id it doesn't work out, then leave before the crime escalates

June D. Watrous, JD

[fking]

Sue, I noticed the same thing. Had a sister go thru abuse without being a stroke survivor or caregiver. Being a survivor myself, having a wife that quit her job to stay home and care for me for two years, makes me have so much respect for caregivers.

 

Especially, you and others here whom have many years caring for those you dearly love. It's harder to walk out when you love someone. You keep hoping for a change to come, but in these posted cases, it seem to get worse. At that point it's time to walk when all other actions has failed. We only have one life, we can get many partners farther up the road.

 

I'm proof of that, I don't have the heart or mind to abuse anyone. I see the strain when you throw in a stroke, but from what I read, these relationships were already strained and the stroke added fuel to the fire.

 

Help should be sought in all cases, as it's said, "No One should be subjected to any kind of abuse." It's too easy to walk away, yeah, you loose material things which can be replaced, but you got your kids, your life, and a chance to live it. That's why there are Shelters in most cities in the U.S. that I know of for women and children.

 

Sue, we do have agencies to deal with these situations, but the persons have to come forward and seek the help.

[tdehaas]

Hey sue

 

Hot topic..got my attention as I'm sure it may grab others.

 

I agree with most of what has been said by everyone except I would clarify a few things to try and be as helpful as possible.

 

:2cents:

 

Abuse is a very broad term and comes in many forms as was stated, however, all abuse is surely not criminal as much as we'd like it to be. i.e. I believe name calling can be abusive but is not a crime unless there's some kind of threat or gesture involved.

 

As far as understanding abuse as it relates to stroke, I'm sure is a very complicated matter...way beyond my paygraqde :big_grin: On the surface, I do agree with Lin too. It seems it would be inportant to get to the root. Althuogh I think all abuse is rooted in contol and controlling another.

 

Moreover whether anyone should or would want to contine in a relationship with any kind of abuse is the question to me. I have family and close friends, past and present, involved in abusive relationships though I don't thnk a Stroke is involved.

 

I, too, think it's good that subjects like these can be discussed in forums like this. Specifically I think it's the light of day that helps solve many of the problems. Our society has the tendency to shun away from discussing topics like these and sweep them under the rug,... which just enabled the problems more.

 

 

Good topic Sue

 

Tom

[caringfor5]

As some of you know, I'm sure, by reading my posts, I am one of the people who has posted of verbal abuse by my fiance after his strokes. I think were I have a hard time dealing with this is the fact that it NEVER happened before the stroke. He never called me names, he never said a mean thing to me. Sure we would have disagreements about things, all couples do, but they never escalated to what a disagreement does now.

 

So these are my thoughts. I don't think its that easy to just say I should leave him if he's verbally abusive or abusive in any other way because I know for sure that it is caused by the strokes. Now if he were this way before I probably wouldn't have loved him enough to take on this responsibility of caring for him in the first place, but I was deeply in love with him and still am. I do struggle with whether it was the right decision to bring him home, at times, but mostly I just want our relationship to be back to what it was. Now I know that it can never be exactly what it was before, but my hope is always that we are going to figure out how to deal with this issue and maybe that means medication or maybe he needs counseling I don't know, but what I do know is that its not in anyway easy to just give up on the person and in Mikes case put him in a home, when you know that it is the strokes that has caused this because you had such a near perfect relationship before. And when I say that the strokes caused this, I don't mean that he's so depressed that he lashes out or that he's just mad as h*** and wants to rant and rave. I mean that he had frontal lobe damage and I know that this can cause impulse problems. So when he gets mad he gets really mad and he can not control, to an extent, what he says. I do truly believe that he can not control it or maybe I would feel differently about it.

 

I struggle with this everytime he yells, do I subject my children and myself any longer, should I have just put him in a home......but then I remember the man before the strokes and I know my kids do as well.....and then I sometimes come here to vent......and then I hope it gets better, but I don't think I'll ever be able to turn away from him and leave him in someone elses care. I just can't......not now, and if it continues maybe I'll have to re-evaluate that statement.

 

Tina

[swilkinson]

Tina , after I read your reply here I felt bad. I wasn't actually pointing to anyone about what he/she had posted, just noticed a general trend.

 

I rang a girlfriend who had eventually left an abusive husband and asked her what had made the difference in the end. She said: "The bad times eventually outweighed the good."

 

Whatever the circumstances you find yourself in right now, I support the person you are. Your decisions are your own. And we are here to support you in whatever way we can.

 

Sue.

[caringfor5]

Sue,

 

I would never want you to feel bad because of my post. I just wanted to get my thoughts out there on what I'm feeling right now. I actually feel that in a case where a person is just simply abusive and there is no underlying problem such as stroke or other kinds of brain injury that that is unacceptable and would never have stayed in a relationship with someone who would treat me that way nor do I think anyone should. I completely understand what you were saying and there may be a time when I have to decide that this isn't getting any better and be faced with a decision. I hope that it gets better though.

 

Thank you for your thoughts and your support. I am so thankful that I can come here to talk about these things and know that there are people here who truly care.

 

Tina

[charmin]

I too like Tina am one that has posted posts about verbal abuse. Like Tina I know in my heart that this is not Steed. He was very loving before the stroke. Do I believe it is abuse? To a degree yes, but my question remains is it abuse if they don't do it intentionaly? I know in my heart that Steed loves me and like I would be if I lost him, he would be lost with out me. I have posted many posts upset about my treatment and yes I do wish it would end, I do wish he would stop yelling at me and saying the things he does. But would I leave him at this point no, he has noone else and like wise I have no one else. I do vent on this site because I feel comfortable talking about what is going, everyone else in my life does not understand. They all think abuse is abuse and I should just leave him. They don't understand that I love him, I truly love him with my whole soul. How do you just walk away from that? Sometimes it does get really bad and I don't know how much more I can take, but it always seems different in the morning. I know he is sorry for all he says and he would change it if he could but right now he can't. His stroke affected the emotion part of the brain, and it kills me to watch him go through this. Even when he is yelling and being verbally abusive it breaks my heart because I know that is not him. Anyway I am sorry if I upset anyone with my posts, but sometimes I need to just get things out with people I think do not judge.

 

Andi

[fking]

Tina & Andi,

 

Hey, I certainly understand your positions in dealing with a survivor with brain damage. It affects each of us differently and of course you know that's the only difference in the behaviour patterns now compared to prior stroke days.

 

I am a major damage stroke survivor, almost 3 years now. I'm not too good at explaining myself these days and trying to type it with one finger to boot.

 

In my mind, in replying to your post, I know the love is there in your heart, actions, devotions and everything else. I'm just saying, don't get physically hurt if you can see it coming, when you can possibably get yourself and the kids out of the way, if it comes to that.

 

If only temporarily until any likely physical danger has passed. Neither one of you indicated any physical abuse, just verbal which comes with the stroke condition just like the ones who lost the ability to speak enough to be understood for now.

 

So, my reply comment was taking what you were explaining farther than what you were venting to members and other caregivers whom you can relate with on this forum.

 

I apologize for any confusion my comment may have caused you both to think I'm saying "just leave."

[caringfor5]

Fred,

 

Your comments made perfect sense. Mike does not physically abuse me although sometimes I think that he would if he could. But I do step away from the situation now, if he is yelling I leave the room and then come back and ask him if he's alright. Before I use to stay right there, for fear that he would hurt himself because he is not completely immobile, now I don't. It has helped, he seems to calm down quicker if I'm not right there to listen to him.

 

Tina