.

Sandy

What a lot of younger women don't understand is that you can live single/alone but still be in a committed and very satisfying relationship. Older woman understand that they can have the satisfying male/female relationship only without having to do the guy's laundry, cook all his meals and clean his house.

Jean

Jean:

I don' think doing guy's laundry and other stuff makes you satisfied in relationship, I think being married to the person and for the love of the family, you want to contribute in your family that will include all chores in it, and I m not saying only woman has to do it, its both partners responsibility whoever is capable of doing should do it and think about others. I always think marriage is our reunion, and we both have to make it work for our and our partner's sanity

Asha

I think the unmarried but committed couple can be a very satisfactory relationship for two older people but unless it is explained and accepted by their family and friends difficult for those who are "signficant others".We don't on the whole live in isoloation but in a network of relationships so for those who can't work out what exactly their relationship to this new person in the family is there is some conflict.

I remember a friend of Mum's whose middle aged son had a live-in ladyfriend. Mrs *S* had some problems with this, especially as he wasn't divorced so technically she still had a daughter-in-law, the mother of her much loved grandchildren. After some consideration she said to my mum: "I have decided. I will refer to Carol as *D*'s concubine." It didn't go well with the lady in question but I guess it was the correct terminology.

Sue.

Asha,

I guess I didn't word that very well. What I meant is two people living in separate houses but are a committed couple can have very satisfying relationship. For the woman, is can even be better because you don't have to do laundry, cooking or cleaning for anyone but yourself.

Jean

Ladies

not to mention not having to explain when you want to spend time with your friends, or alone, or with your cats.......

sandy

OK, I ****KNOW**** IN ADVANCE I WILL GET "BLASTED". LOL LOL.

MAYBE IT'S A SOUTHERN THANG, BUT ********** AND I WILL SWEAR UNDER OATH**** I ENJOY COOKING, CLEANING, AND WASHING CLOTHES FOR MY MAN. ALL OF THEM. I LIKE PREPARING WONDERFUL MEALS AND SERVING THEM TO HIM.

THESE LAST THREE MARRIAGES, WELL TWO ANYWAY, THE MEN DIDN'T APPRECIATE IT AND THAT HURT ME. #3 DID, BUT HE WAS A WHOLE ANOTHER PROBLEM NOT RELATED TO BEING SWEET TO ME. # 1 NEVER GOT A CHANCE TO EXPERIENCE IT BECAUSE WE GOT "ANNULLED" AS SOON AS OUR PARENTS FOUND OUT WE WERE MARRIED. #2 WAS SUCH A PICKY EATER YOU COULDN'T COOK ANYTHING IN THE SAME OVEN WHICH HAD ONIONS IN IT, *****ZZZZZ BORING******* #4 WAS SUCH A HOG HE DIDN'T NOTICE MATCHING FLATWARE OR A DECORATIVE FLOWER WITH THE MEAL. THAT PIG COULD EAT OUT OF A TROUGH AND BE HAPPY.

THIS NEXT ONE # 5, TRULY APPRECIATES IT AND I TRULY ENJOY SPOILING HIM. WHAT DO I GET IN RETURN? HE NOTICES SMALL TOUCHES TO HIS MEAL, COMMENTS ON THE FLAVOR AND BRAGS ON ME. THANKS ME PROFUSELY. ALSO STUFF I ABHOR DOING LIKE CAR MAINTENANCE, TAKING OUT TRASH, ETC. ALTHOUGH I WILL DO THOSE THINGS IF NEEDED. I FEEL HONORED WHEN MY MAN ENJOYS A MEAL OR LOOKS IN HIS CLOSET AND HAS FRESH CLOTHES. I LIKE TO CLEAN.

I TOLD YA'LL, I'M GONNA GET BLASTED. I AM NOT TRYING TO HIJACK YOUR BLOG SANDY*** BUT YOU DID QUOTE ME, LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL .

KIM

why would i "blast" you, Kim? i found your blog very thought-provoking and thought i answered it in a thoughtful, intelligent way. besides, there are no hi-jacking rules in the blogs, or so i'm told.

i have no quibble with enjoying cooking, cleaning, washing clothes, and preparing wonderful meals. people on this site like Bonnie, Denny, Bill, and Rolly seem to be wonderful chefs, and i would give them my FedEx aacoount number to Fedex meals to me any time. i myself learned how to cook and bake at an early age (because my mom was a truly terrible cook, and my dad, though trained as a military cook, was not home often enough because of work to cook for us a lot,) and am actually quite good at it, if i choose to do it, which i usually don't. i also enjoy having a clean, organized home, and must have clean, well-laundered clothes. it's just that, for me, there are so many things that i have to do/like to do better in a day, that cooking, cleaning, and washing clothes are lower in the list of my priorities, and if i can pay to get them done or have John do them, it works for me.

the part that's troubling to me is that you have to do it FOR A MAN (actually, for anyone other than yourself,) to feel that these things that you like to do are worthwhile projects, and feel good about yourself for doing them. you don't need anyone else to make you feel like a worthwhile person, Kim, you are a worthwhile person all by yourself. why do you need such validation of your efforts/existence to feel good about yourself? you should feel good about yourself simply just by being you.

i like having John around, but i don't need him to validate who i am as a person. i can do that all by myself. maybe that's why i was without a partner and OK with it from the time i filed from divorce from my ex the frog in 1998 until the time that i met John in 2002.

i appreciate your comments, Kim, and are glad that you are back on Strokenet.

sandy

TY SANDY,

ACTUALLY, I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT AS "VALIDATING", MAYBE IT IS THAT. FOOD FOR THOUGHT. . IRONICALLY, THAT IS THE WORD I MISSPELLED IN THE COUNTY SPELLING BEE OF 1974. ( SORRY, THAT JUST POPPED IN MY HEAD) LOL. IT'S TRUE.

PERHAPS IT IS, I WILL HAVE TO PONDER IT. BASICALLY, I JUST THINK I LIKE TO PLEASE. I LIKE TO **BE PLEASED TOO****. I KNOW YOU CAN'T OFFER PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, BUT CAN I ASK A QUESTION THAT AS A "LAY PERSON" YOU MAY ANSWER? IF NOT, I UNDERSTAND.

HERE'S THE QUESTION.

DO YOU THINK MULTIPLE MARRIAGES IS A SIGN THAT ONE IS NOT TRULY HETEROSEXUAL?. I AM NOT QUESTIONING MYSELF, BUT A FRIEND BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION A FEW WEEKS AGO ABOUT SOME "STUDY " SHE READ, AND IT IS WEIGHING HEAVILY ON MY MIND.

THANKS

KIM

Ok - my turn to get blasted for hijacking- lol

J and Ryan have never had a TV Dinner, they've never tasted "Hamburger Helper" and until my stroke neither of them ever had to turn on the oven, wash a dish, or know how to work the washing machiene.

When I was first married to J - he went home to his Mom's for a hot lunch every day (because I worked all day in the moritorium division of Columbia in Chicago, and his Mom lived in the same suburb that he worked in) - and J came home to a hot meal every night.

Can you say spoiled!?

Well - things changed in August 2004. They now do 50% of what needs to be done around here - OF course, in my opinion - neither of them knows how to clean a bathroom - but, I love them for attempting it.

Would I ever want to be single again? No ... I can't imagine my life without someone in it - then or now. We don't JUST share the chores and the problems and the heartaches of day to day living - we share the moments that make life spectacular.

If J divorced me tomorrow and took the children too, I'd look for someone else to spend the rest of my life with.

Not because I can't make it on my own, (I'm one of those rare intelligent independant women who makes more money than her husband)--- but, because it's nice to share the journey... it's comforting to know someone else is on the same "bumpy road called life" as you are.

~V

Vicki

you mean that you worked, and did all of the cooking, cleaning, and housework, and cooked your husband and son home-cooked meals from scratch?

John's mom did all of those things for John and his brother and sister. she was a homemaker until the kids got older and then went to worke in the office of a local Catholic grade school. she cooked and cleaned and did all of the hosework and cooked delicious home-cooked meals. she defended her chidlren against anyone who wasn't "in the family."

John's mother physically and emotionally abused him from the time he was very small. she treated his brother and sister, who were 4 1/2 and 9 years younger than John, differently. John was alcohol dependent by the the time that he was around 14-15 years old and was substance dependent until he got clean and sober 9 yrs ago at the age of 42. John was married and divorced before he met me but did not move out of his parents' house until he met me at age 47, when he moved in with me. his mother was still cooking his meals and doing his laundry, and would get hysterical when he would do these things himself.

John's brother is still alcohol dependent, was arrested for dealing drugs in his early 20s when he had a wife and a son, and now is a successful businessman and the family patriarch who is also a sociopath. John's sister married somone who is alcohol dependent. John's mother and father denied all of this substance dependence and all of the family's vast dysfunction and psychopathology. John hates his mother and has no contact with any of his family. the last straw was when they didn't beleive that he had a TBI and abandoned him because they believed it was a scam that i concocted because i am a physician and because he married me.

can you say crazy? inbred? gangster family from hell?

i trust that you are ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like his mother, and that not all woman who do absolutely everything for their husbands and children are like his mother.

sandy

BTW, i'm one of those rare, intelligent, independent women who make more money for three days' worth of work than just about everyone that i know, including John, my ex, my father, John's father, and John's brother.

Sandy,

I'm with you and my cat would agree. I have been married twice and I have been a caregiver twice, I am begining to see a pattern. The next time I am going to take care of me and my cat. That rocking chair in assisted living really sounds like a plan, we just have to make sure the attendants are worth pinching.:roflmao:

Lynn

Sandy and Lynn, I am somewhat of an expert on assisted living and believe me you don't even want to go there. Some of the staff in some of those places would make Attila look like a honey.

Seriously, I think money can be quite a cushion and that people who are better off get better care. So save for that rainy day when you are old, widowed and in some cases friendless. Sandy, I have never worked in an industry where women got paid as well as you seem to, most of my dealings have been in the lower income level where the good things in life had to be saved for.

Like Vicky, when I first worked full-time I did the work at home as well. There were no choices, no cheap labour, no subsidised childcare, no tax breaks and a woman was expected to work inside and outside the home. I guess in a way that makes caregiving easier as I am used to long hours.

Mind you I would hesitate to spoil a man as Kim says she does. I look at Ray and see the results of that. He did the outside work, I did the inside work, now I do both. None of what he is capable of doing appeals to him and so he doesn't think of taking on even chores he could do.

I think if I continue on here it will turn into something I should have blogged about. Sorry.

Sue.

i trust that you are ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like his mother, and that not all woman who do absolutely everything for their husbands and children are like his mother.

Sandy,

I'm not a psycho! All women that "do absolutely everything for thier husband and children" can not be described as manipulating or abusive. Sorry - the closest thing my guys get to abuse is when I say there's no dessert... :roflmao:

~V

Sue

assisted living appears to be different in Australia than it is in the United States. many"retirement communites" have levels of assisted living as part of their services. there are also numerous assisted living communities that are organized and then run by the participatns themselves. these are the type of "assisted living" facilites that i am referring to.

in terms of money, my mom came with her father at age 14 (her mother was dead, her older sister was already shipped to Palestine) to NYC in April, 1939, from Berlin with two suitcases and no money. she dropped out of school at age 16, after beinng put in first grade at age 14 because she couldn't speak English, and went to work as a seamstress. my dad, an orphan, a veteran of 2 wars, a survivor of a German internment camp, and a member of the Shin Bet (Israeli Secret Service), came here alone in 1950 at age 29 with one suitcase and no money for surgery, met my mother and never went backto Israel. he worked as a messenger. my parents both did housework and cooking because they believed in a more equal relationship. my mom went back to work when i was in first grade as a school aide and eventually went to college and graduate school and became a teacher. my dad became a men's clothing salesman and eventually was a top salesman at Barney's New York.

i started working tutoring and babysitting when i was in junior high school. i am very intelligent, did very well in school, and both my parents and myself valued education. i have basically worked nonstop while getting an education since junior high school and worked nonstop as a physician until i stroked in 1997, supporting a worthless ex-husband. the women that i am in touch with from my old neighborhood, who came from similar backgrounds as i do, are are professsionals with at least a middle-class income. my friends and acquaintances are mostly educated women with careers as well.

my parents worked like dogs for everything that they had and deserve everything that they have. they had a good retirement before my father's first major stroke in 2003. the fact that they earned money, invested wisely, saved like a miser (my mom mostly), and have a daughter that worked her way through med school, is smart, and knows the medical system and how to tweak it, is something that i'm proud of, and it's sad that you seem so envious of that situation.

i can work part time and still made a good salary because I AM VERY GOOD AT WHAT I DO and other professionals and patients are aware of that as well. when i had to go out on disability because i stroked, about 80% of patients came back to me when i went back to work. that didn't happen because i offer discount rates or a door prize with treatment.

i think that rather than say that my parents and i are situated well because we are rich, which is not true, one should say that what my dad, John, and myself are receiving in terms of medical support and treatment should be available to everyone. i think bitterness and envy should be turned into social activisn, so that all should get the services that they need and deserve.

i'll get off my soapbox now.

sandy

.

Ladies,

I'll add my two cents.... I believe if a guy looks to his wife to take care of his every single, tiny need then he's more likely to be the type to cut and run when she can no longer do those things for him. i.e. has a stroke or other health issue. On the other hand, if the marriage is more an equal partnership with shared responsibilities then when one has a health issue then the other is more likely to stick around.

When the woman does all the "spoiling" and the guy does all the lapping it up and "appreciating" (or vise verse) why would she/he be surprised that their spouse can't pass the test when hard times come ago?

Jean

I KNOW YOU CAN'T OFFER PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, BUT CAN I ASK A QUESTION THAT AS A "LAY PERSON" YOU MAY ANSWER? IF NOT, I UNDERSTAND.

 

HERE'S THE QUESTION.

 

DO YOU THINK MULTIPLE MARRIAGES IS A SIGN THAT ONE IS NOT TRULY HETEROSEXUAL?. I AM NOT QUESTIONING MYSELF, BUT A FRIEND BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION A FEW WEEKS AGO ABOUT SOME "STUDY " SHE READ, AND IT IS WEIGHING HEAVILY ON MY MIND.

 

THANKS

KIM

kim

to answer your question, in my opinion you cannot make a blanket statement like that concerning multiple marriages. you would have to assess everyone who has had more than one marriage on a case by case basis to ascertain which person was heterosexual and which person was not. also, many researchers of human sexuality feel that there sexuality is a spectrum in which one can be strongly heterosexual, strongly homosexual, or somewhere in between, in fact or fantasy. frued thinks we're all bisexual anyway.

you should not question yourself on the basis of one study that your friend read.

i would like to see this study. if you can get the reference from your friend, i'll google it.

sandy

.

Back to the ladies-living-single thing that started this very interesting thread. The proof is in the pudding to my way of thinking. i.e. when most elderly women are widowed they usually don't want to get re-married and they will enjoy their ladies' groups, etc. Widowed men, however, usually get remarried so quickly their adult children go into cardiac arrest.

For me personally, there was and will only be one keeper guy in my life. Fortunately, he appreciates the fact that cooking, cleaning and being the 'good woman' of the neighborhood is not my style. He and (my dad before Don) spoiled me in a different way from the way most women get spoiled by the men in their lives. They both let me be me even if that meant that I was in the basement building scuptures when most women were in the kitchen making dinner.

It truly amazes me that any us find our soul mates in this world! And many of us on this site seem to have acomplished that feat.

Jean

Jean

i think that part of that phenomenon is the ability that some women have to maintain close and meaningful friendships for many years that are maintained despite changes in circumstances that most men do not seem to have. i think that the situation described in Sarah's last blog happens less with women thna with men. when one has many interests, friends, and social supports, there is a greater probability that one can feel whole as a person and not need to look for another man to find one's definition and purose in life. i think that men are less likely to have that, and less likely to feel whole when without a partner.

i think that socialization factors play a large part in why this seems to be true in contemporary american society.

it would be interesting to have a male person comment on this discussion, but i think that this topic has scared them all away.

sandy

ps talking about soul mates-i have found my soul mate, but i am unsure if it is John or Marmaduke.

Sandy

I really don't believe there is only one soul mate per person, you don't have decide between John and the cat.

Jean

HE DOES EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER TO MAKE ME FEEL YOUNG, ATTRACTIVE, AND WHOLE. ALL THINGS I KNOW I AM NOT.

if the definition of a "soul mate" would be to find a creature that would enable me to feel all of the above things that i was not feeling, then i would definately choose the cat.

i believe that one can only find a soul mate when one is a whole person, complete in themselves. then, one can reach out and find another person who is complete in themselves, or on the conscious road to completion. the relationship will sustain itself and continue even when one or both becomes, middle-aged, pleasantly plump, or disabled.

sandy