Terry Shippy Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 An interesting site on adult stem cell vs embryonic: http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/bioethic...ng/a0036470.cfm I have serious ethical problems with embryonic stem cells. Adult stem cells are much further along and just as promising or more. I wish research and funding is more focus on adult stem cell to eliminate controversy. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriva Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I have no ethical objections stem cell research done with embryonic cells. However, I do have an ethical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriva Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Sandy, There in comes the Orwellian delimma for me. I think we should cross a few of those "sociological bridges" right now. For example: if enough people have ethical objections to embryonic stem cell research---for whatever reason---is it right or wrong to use public funds to move the research forward? Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder and Owner smallory Posted June 4, 2006 Founder and Owner Share Posted June 4, 2006 It's not like they purposely kill an embryo to then take stem cells. From what I understand these stem cells come from countries where abortion is legal! Where does the embryo go for abortions? If it would be discarded, anyway, doesn't it make sense to do something useful? I am a Christian and am pro life but I cannot change how other countries think so I would rather have something good come out of this situation rather than stand on principal and say that I don't want to use these stem cells because they come from abortions. I should note that this forum is for SCTI and everybody needs to understand that they perform stem cell therapy in countries where abortion is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriva Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 . I am a card carrying member of NOW and I'm truly not concerned with the ethical dilemma that some religions have regarding the question of where life begins or getting stem cells from legal abortions. It's a non issue to me when it comes to stem cell research. I stated my qualms on the topic up above. I also believe that debate is healthy and necessary to get everyone's opinions out in the open so that compromise can be achieved and the "sociological bridges" we are about to cross can be shored up before the flood waters come. Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hamilton Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Terry, since you're in this particular segment of Stroke Survivors Forum, I'm going to assume you've experienced a stroke and are disabled to some degree like the rest of us. My disability is my useless right arm and leg after I stroked more than a year ago. I wonder if you could enlighten me as to what your stroke was, brain bleed or ischemic, and what effect it has had on your daily life ? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriva Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 James, Here's a link to Terry's Newbie Introduction thread if it will help: http://www.strokeboard.net/index.php?showt...910entry25910 Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder and Owner smallory Posted June 4, 2006 Founder and Owner Share Posted June 4, 2006 Steve isn't abortion legal here in the USA, Sandy, I thought about what I said later on and what I really meant to say is that the stem cells come from an aborted embryo from another country where abortions and stem cell therapy is legal. Thanks for correcting me so I could clear up my point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom71 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Terry, As a devoted Christian whom is totally Pro Life, I see nothing wrong with Stem cell research (in fact I support it), from my understanding most of these cells come from ivf anyways and only those embroy's that are not going to be implanted would be used for research(saving them from being discarded), I also wonder if there could be a national stem cell bank created, similar to the national blood bank, where after a woman gives birth the leftover blood and cells in the umbilical cord could be donated and banked instead of discarded which is today's practice.As for ethical problems with stem cell research, isn't it more ethical to help someone whom is facing a life threatening or dehabilitating illness than too just throw away theses cells and any hope a person has. :Tantrum: :Rant-On: God Bless, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_COO_SCTI Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I would like to comment on some of the discussions on stem cells and stroke patients in todays society. What I do not want to do is get involved is the ethical issues that people with debilitating and degenerative diseases will have to deal with if they decide to get stem cell transplantation therapy. It is a personal decision that everyone has to make if they hope for a better quality of life for themselves, their families and loved ones. We know that stem cells work. They can regenerate damaged cells, neural tissue and organs. Someone has a stroke in the US every 45 seconds. It is the third largest cause of death in this country. According to the American Heart Association, in 2003, 427,000 males died from strokes and 484,000 females died of strokes. That's over 911,000 people in one year. Today there are 5,500,000 male stroke survivors and 2,400,000 female stroke survivors living in just this country. They have varing degrees of brain damage, paralysis and diminished functionality. I have the greatest respect and admiration for the members of the StrokeNetwork here in the US and other such organizations all over the world who have joined together to share experiences, caregiver advise, medical treatments and their stories in general. The support system you provide and the comaradery do wonders in helping the rehabilitation process. Stem cell transplantation is not a "Miracle Cure" (someone stole that from our documentation by the way) for every stroke patient or any other patient suffering from a degenerative disease or debilitating accident. And not everyone is a candidate for stem cell transplantation. Even stem cells have their limitations as how much they can regenerate a persons neural tissues or heal specific brain damage. However, there are many thousands that can be helped to return to a better quality of life with the proper use of the proper types of stem cells. There are no guarantees, but I have seen the changes and you have all read the independent story written by the Sunday World about our friend Ian McBride. A stem cell is a stem cell no matter where it comes from. There are embryonic stem cells that come from a cell mass after just a few days after fertilization. There are fetal stem cells that come from the liver tissue after a few weeks. there are umbilical cord stem cells that remain the placenta after birth. And there are adult stem cells that are extracted from the spinal column of a grown individual. But they do have their difference in how effective they are in the regeneration of the patients condition. One of the main issues and cost factors is being able to extract the sufficient amount of stem cells (dose) that need to be transplanted into a patient for them to have any long lasting and permanent effect in the body. I am working with a patient right now with MS who went to Holland to get stem cell transplantation therapy. He paid $18,000. for a two day treatment. He returned home and was amazed at the changes he had experienced. Improved mobility and dexterity, improved speech, improved short term memory and increased stamina. Two months later, he was back at the point before he went for the therapy. No lasting improvement. Upon questioning the patient, I discovered that he had received stem cells from cord blood. Which is OK. Upon further questioning I also discovered that he had received 4MM stem cells during the transplantation. That is where the problem was. We at SCTI have developed a formula that varies with each patient, but our minimum with cord blood stem cells is 4MM stem cell per kg of body weight. If you do the math and factor the patients degenerative condition, age and size that comes out to somewhere between 600MM to 1 Billion stem cells over a 5 day period of time. Now you will have a regeneration process that will continue working for up to one year. The addition of nutrients and human growth hormones to the biological solution helps the body's circulatory system to create an optimum environment for the stem cells to do their work. Non-toxic and more alkaline Ph than acidic. I can go on for hours about the details and working of embryonic, fetal stem cells as well. They are the best stem cells to use. Embryonic stem cells have their own problems. The cam tumorize and sometimes develop into cells that you do not want. Not malignant, not dangerous but unnecessary. FACT: There are 54 countries that allow legal abortions (including the US) about 61% of the worlds population. The fetal material is discarded as medical waste. Fertility clinics create many invitro fertilized eggs and implant only a few into the womb of couples (the woman obviously) who have trouble having children or could otherwise not have any at all. The remaining embryos are either frozen for future use or flushed as medical waste. Why not extract the stem cells before and donate them to help the thousands of people who suffer from Strokes or MS or Diabetes or Alzheimer's or any one of a number of degenerative diseases to have a better quality of life and be able to live longer more productive lives? As I said before, each of you will have to make that decision based on your own beliefs and desire to have a better and productive life. But only you can make that decision. Do not let others make it for you, for they do not been in your shoes or live the life you have been given as a stroke victim. If anyone has any questions about the information covered this posting or any questions at all on SCTI and stem cell transplantation therapy, I would be happy to provide any additional information. We hope that education will stimulate patients to do their research and make their voices heard to move this regenerative medical proceedure forward. Thank you all, peter@scticorp.com "Pain is temporary, quitting is forever." Lance Armstrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fayeforcure Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Sandy, There in comes the Orwellian delimma for me. I think we should cross a few of those "sociological bridges" right now. For example: if enough people have ethical objections to embryonic stem cell research---for whatever reason---is it right or wrong to use public funds to move the research forward? Jean Hi Jean, There are enough people who object to the death penalty but we do use public funds for that nevertheless. There are many areas that public funds are being used for that I don't agree with,.......such is life. It's not like they purposely kill an embryo to then take stem cells. From what I understand these stem cells come from countries where abortion is legal! Where does the embryo go for abortions? If it would be discarded, anyway, doesn't it make sense to do something useful? I am a Christian and am pro life but I cannot change how other countries think so I would rather have something good come out of this situation rather than stand on principal and say that I don't want to use these stem cells because they come from abortions. I should note that this forum is for SCTI and everybody needs to understand that they perform stem cell therapy in countries where abortion is legal. Hi Steve, Actually you are describing fetal stem cells. Embryonic stem cells come from a five day old fertilized egg cell in a petrie dish. This fertilized egg cell has never implanted in a woman and therefor has nothing to do with abortion. Fertlized egg cells are routinely discarded at In Vitro Fertilization clinics, and I think it's unconcionable to have these cells go to waste or be indefinitely frozen rather than to use them for research to help my son Jason(16) walk again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikisteph Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Hello all, I like many others find this subject fascinating and whilst it may offer a way ahead for some of us there is an event that no one has seen fit to mention. That is that the Catholic Church is at last debating the issue and what they seem to be saying is equivalent to putting a stop to the whole thing. To my mind that is no bad thing until we know a lot more about it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fayeforcure Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Mike, While the catholic church wants to stop stem cell research and have been actively trying to do so for a decade or so already, just like they did IVF procedures and even heart transplants, .........4,000 people die EVERY DAY that stem cell research is delayed. You or your loved one may not be suffering from a terminal medical condition, but millions of people do ( think ALS where the average life expectancy is just 3 years ). All people are welcome to their religious ideas, but it is unconcionable to impose those religious ideas on others. Thanks, Faye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikisteph Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Hello Faye, Whilst i agree with some of what you say Ithink you would be well advised to apply a little lateral thinking to what the Catolic Church has to say. Let us for the time being accept that they carry out their threat to excommunicate all those involved in stem cell research and that is taken to cover therapy also as it may be deemed to be research. Most of the facilities where such treatments are given are in catholic countries. In such places they regard their religion as very important and losing it as equivalent to death. Where are the staff going to come from to enable such establishments to function. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 [bPeter, this question is probably another one that you have answered many times but because I only check in occasionally Im not sure about what has been discussed, I would like to know more about the process of stemm cell transplantation, I have gone to the sciticorp address and cannot locate where to go about getting added information you mentioned an attachment for it but I didn't get that, frustrated, because I would like to think that I would be a likely candidate for the process. would appreciate any help here, thanks, Penny [bPeter, this question is probably another one that you have answered many times but because I only check in occasionally Im not sure about what has been discussed, I would like to know more about the process of stem cell transplantation, I have gone to the sciticorp address and cannot locate where to go about getting added information you mentioned an attachment for it but I didn't get that, frustrated, because I would like to think that I would be a likely candidate for the process. would appreciate any help here, thanks, Penny [bPeter, this question is probably another one that you have answered many times but because I only check in occasionally Im not sure about what has been discussed, I would like to know more about the process of stem cell transplantation, I have gone to the sciticorp address and cannot locate where to go about getting added information you mentioned an attachment for it but I didn't get that, frustrated, because I would like to think that I would be a likely candidate for the process. would appreciate any help here, thanks, Penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foz Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Dear Peter, When I look back at my life and see all that I lost and to now see what is possible for a new me it brings tears to my eyes! When I hear people like the goverment and church gripe about this it makes me very angry. It is my only chanch for my life back and if "I" decide to do this it's my decision not yours. Even if it is only a chance I want it. LET ME LIVE! fOZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slmstrokeangel Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I think the religious community is misinformed. According to what I have read about stem cells there is no " abortion " involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hamilton Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Well, maybe after this week, the whole stem cell discussion, both pro and con, becomes academic and the sky will becomes the limit. Keep your fingers crossed that the Senate votes in favor of HR 810 ... James Dear Friends, We have learned that the Senate debate and vote on the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act, H.R. 810, may occur as early as the latter part of this week. This is the moment we have been waiting for since the bill passed the House of Representatives on May, 24, 2005. This is our one and only chance to get the bill passed by the Senate and we need you to act NOW! Shortly before the Fourth of July recess, Senator Frist successfully obtained what is called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrabbit Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Thanks Jim for helping us stay informed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hamilton Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Thanks azrabbit. I hope everybody feels as excited. Our day may finally be just around the corner ... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwatrous Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Well, Chris Reeves opened the door for stem cell research, and it seems to me that the church or politicians should not have a say whether this is legal - recall separation between church and state & it really looks, sad to say that it'll take a high-profile person to get hurt before this really gets the FRONT DOOR WIDE OPENED - Even Michael J. Fox is pushing for this as its been proven that stem cells, both adult and embryonic, "may" produce cures for [1] stroke pts., [2] MS, [3] Parkinson disease & [4] possibly dementia! This is so exciting, I just can't see why it won't happen We have seen heart and lung transplants, kidney & list goes on - This new century will hopefully pay for medical technology in lieu of wars I can hope at least June Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lwisman Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I was glad to see both senators from my state (Illinois) are on the list of senators supporting the bill. All those from states whose senators are not on the list should definitely contact their senators. These guys and gals want to serve those their states and they want be re-elected so they are most interested in what their constituents want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstockman Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 There are many "spontaneous abortions" miscarriages. The "products of conception" (fetus) is discarded as medical waste. I think if more women knew that the cells could be used to help with a devastating illness or to help someone they would donate ... like organ donation.. There are many sides to this debate, but i think a miscarriage would or could be looked at as organ donation. Some one helped by a naturally occuring event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Shippy Posted July 12, 2006 Author Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hello, I have not seen his thread in a while since I started this subject. There were interesting responses and this is indeed a controversial subject. I am not convinced that embryonic stem cell research holds the most promise and there are serious ethical issues. I am a conservative Protestant. I believe the soul has its beginning at conception whether out of womb or inside. I believe our souls last forever. The issue of embryonic stem cells is a religious one whether you are Catholic, Jew, conservative or liberal Christian, agnostic, atheist, new age, eastern, etc. I know I am not going to convince everyone. There is no such thing as a wall of separation of church and state. It is not even in the Constitution! I would like to see continued research and trials for non-embryonic stem cells (adult, umbilical cord, cold blood, etc). If stem cells can be extracted from a fetus in the womb or from embryos for those who are barren or lesbians without killing it, I would be open to it. On the issue aborted babies/fetuses and discarded embryos, can stem cells be extracted when these are "dead"? If so, I would be open to it. Miscarraiges would seem a viable option ethically. Terry PS - I just got approval from my insurance company for the baclofen pump trial to see if I am a candidate. I have general spasticity from the multiple embolic strokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hamilton Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 This is a little late but still relevant ... James WASHINGTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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